Alan Dershowitz and Michael Hayden versus Alexis Ohanian and Glenn Greenwald, with a video appearance by Edward Snowden.
The actual debate starts around minute 27 on the video. You may use your cursor to click ahead to it.
"The more power a government has the more it can act arbitrarily according to the whims and desires of the elite, and the more it will make war on others and murder its foreign and domestic subjects. Power will achieve its murderous potential. It simply waits for an excuse, an event of some sort, an assassination, a massacre in a neighboring country, an attempted coup, a famine, or a natural disaster, to justify the beginning of murder en masse."
R. J. Rummel, Mass Murder and Genocide, 1994